LOTRO Players News Episode 102: Update 16 Review


This week is the review episode for Update 16!

Blooper video here.

Game News

PvMP Palantir Testing Started

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LOTRO Players News

Poll: What Is Your Favorite Instrument In LOTRO?

Poems of the Pine

LOTRO Video Highlights: Under The Mountain Dark and Tall

The Family Line Part 48

New Player Question

What is Weatherstock? How can I participate? (Also talk about some of the events that go on on other servers)

News Beyond LOTRO

Sir Christopher Lee Dies at 93

Song of Durin – Peter Hollens

Update 16 Review

Andang – A

Arathaert – B+

Karvett – Sounds good to me ๐Ÿ™‚

Lilikate – A

Pineleaf – A

Teriadwyn – A-

ย Overallย Score: A


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Featured Comments

Berenthalion left a comment on the 100th show:

โ€œIโ€™d forgotten how epic pineleaf is at reading poems, and how awesome the poems submitted are! Did pineleaf major in drama? Canโ€™t you just imagine him reciting the Ork poem in a class @ school whilst wearing a beret and wardens shield?โ€

Bruthvo left a comment on Poems of the Pine:

โ€œI request that we now start calling Pineleaf Poemleaf.โ€


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  1. Great show, everyone! ๐Ÿ™‚

    My overall grade for the update: B

    I think the most significant aspect of this update is, given what had been said before about instances, how many make use of them, and their cost, Turbine realized they had made a grave, grave error in their data-mining and decided to change course on instances. I am very, very, very, very grateful for that!

    A few comments on what was said:

    Regarding trait points: With the release of Helm’s Deep (November 2013) to current day (June 2015), players have only been given 6 trait points outside of points gained from level increases. Because there were already enough trait points to acquire every single trait in one’s specialization tree from the inception of the system, these 6 points are forced into cross-specialization trees, therefore only being worth 3 ranks. 3 ranks of skill/trait development in nearly two years?

    Far from a need to worry about players being able to acquire every trait, this goes entirely opposite of what was one of the stated reasons behind the trait changes: skill stagnation.

    Regarding Champions: I just wanted to provide a counterpoint to some of the thoughts given on Champions, and please know this is, in no way, meant to be a ‘this is the way to play a Champion or you are doing it wrong’ sort of thing at all. But I think Champions are in a tremendous place right now, and it would be a shame to see someone(s) turned away from the class without a counter viewpoint.

    Red-line Champions are wonderful at battling single foes. Blue-line Champions are wonderful at tanking instances when there is a need.

    If you are ever battling more than one foe at a time and not tanking, the Yellow-line is worth considering.

    Weapon Legacies:
    – Area of Effect Skill Damage
    – Critical Damage Multiplier
    – Rend Bleed Damage
    – Rend Armour Reduction
    – Battle Frenzy Cooldown
    – Last two whatever you like ๐Ÿ™‚ I would go with Might and Wild Attack Damage, personally ๐Ÿ™‚

    Rune Legacies
    – Blade Wall Damage
    – Exchange of Blows Melee Damage
    – Raging Blade Damage
    – Fury of Blades Damage from Fervour
    – Champion’s Stun Horn Duration
    – Last two whatever you like ๐Ÿ™‚ I would go again with Might and Blade Skills AoE Power Cost

    The greatest hurdle with Yellow-line Champions is their slow pacing. Traiting in Red for the -10% Attack Duration and using two relics that give another -5% makes things much better.

    A Champion I travel with does something like this. He wades into four or five camps of Haradrim in Osgiliath at a time and cuts them down within seconds, while I can barely touch a blade to a single foe ๐Ÿ™‚ He also tanks every battle but the three boss fights in Ruined City T2C in yellow line.

    In my opinion, anyone trying this will have a tough time not deciding that, not only are Champions the most powerful class in Middle-earth, but also in MMO history… ๐Ÿ™‚

    Regarding Imbuement: I think the frustration with imbuement is not so much that people wanted to have their items fully developed from the start but instead with the amount of grind needed to do so. One of the biggest reasons people disliked the Legendary Item system before was because they had to scrap their items every level cap increase in order to make new ones of appropriate power. They believed imbuement would put an end to the need for that effort.

    Instead, if you actually take into account what all is required to fully develop an imbued item, it requires about the same effort as would be needed to make new items through three, or maybe even four, level cap increases. Given that we are not likely to see that many cap increases, if any, from this point, the actual grind required for our legendary items increased dramatically with imbuement.

    • You’ve made a lot of good points over the years, Kaleigh, but this may be the best yet:

      > Far from a need to worry about players being able to acquire every trait, this goes entirely opposite of what was one of the stated reasons behind the trait changes: skill stagnation.

      • Kaleigh Starshine /

        Thank you, Brax ๐Ÿ™‚ That is very kind of you to say ๐Ÿ™‚ I am still holding out hope you decide to press your ‘LOTRO Players’ Milestone skill and return to the podcast someday ๐Ÿ™‚

        It really is a shame that Turbine is not making more use of the new trait system. No matter which side you fall on regarding whether the changes were a good idea or not, the greatest strength of the new trait system, I think, is that it offers true and measurable character progression and development, which also requires virtually no development time to achieve.

        The one thing we can be sure of is that the reason is not one of balance. By most estimates, Imbuement has raised players’ DPS by ~30%-40% on an individual basis, and even more when putting various classes’ powers together. If we were to wake up tomorrow and find that Turbine had given everyone 30 trait points for free, the actual boost we would achieve from them would come nowhere near that amount.

  2. Ethelros /

    Dear LOTROPlayers,

    What the heck is a ‘Mamuk’?


    • Lilikate Buggins /

      Georgie slang for “My Mug”?

    • Barnabras /

      Dear Etherlros,
      I’ve noticed you are very polite.
      And yes I thought it was Mumakil.

  3. Instances ideas: Gothmog raid / 6man. Basically set in morgul vale, pre or post black gate shenanigans depending on how turbine wants to do that story. Post would be ideal as no concerns bringing cirith ungol to saurons attention. We would have golodir wit us or he runs in unawares at end boss fight ๐Ÿ˜€

    Others could include Jajax back in harad, liberating his people from sauron lovers. Maybe we could have more war of the ring elsewhere based ones, Northern Mirkwood defensive skirmish or instance from invading easterlings etc. But better quality than Erebor cluster based ones.

  4. Teslas Ghost /

    I LOvED the river daughters quest. Best well written quest in ages!!!!

  5. Banner of Gondor the best emote? I could not disagree more…

    1) Of all the times Turbine could use your character class/race/homeland, they failed here. As a hobbit warden of the Stoors, why would I display or carry a banner of Gondor? My character is not from there, nor do wardens use banners. This is a perfect emote for captain men & women of Gondor – everyone else was ignored.

    2) “Emote” is to portray an emotion in a theatrical manner. What emotion does sticking a banner in the ground from a land you don’t hail from suppose to portray? Am I claiming the area for Gondor? If I stick it in the ground in Dol Amroth, isn’t that redundant? If I stick in Thorin’s Hall, wouldn’t the dwarves have a problem with that?

    3) This is a nice troll/forced emote that can’t be ignored. Think not? Plant this emote blocking the view of someone watching a concert, and see what happens…

    4) This is the Incredibles’, “once everyone is super, no one will be” argument. It takes exactly zero effort to get this emote, which means everyone that wants it can have it. Apparently, you can “buy” it off the AH. The Enedwaith emotes (dance_man3, jump, etc.), require more effort than getting the banner. Now, /bringiton – that’s truly rare and special.

  6. Berthalion /

    Hey all, after reading these forums for a very long time, I decided to give my opinion on the current state of the game and also, not to derail the thread; give my views and opinion on U16.
    I have been playing this game since the early days of moria and I remember well what a good game it was. I was still in primary school back then and I have to say that this game consumed my life. I luckily didnt have any problems with grades so I could sit behind the computer and play for hours every day. I loved this game so much. When I reached lvl cap (60 at the time) I was shortly taken into my first raid, the rift. Even with 10 levels higher than the mobs in the raids and while it was fairly easy to do it, I fell in love with raids and group content. Not to mention all the enjoyment and laughter that happened on vent during the GS runs and other 6mans. Those were the days….
    I played throughout the period of mirkwood expansion and ROI. But after that, what we got was a broken rohan expansion with broken and bugged mounted combat and not to mention the erebor cluster that followed. Those 3 ”raids” dont deserve it’s name. But still, I farmed them like everyone else and then spent the best part before helm’s deep in moors. But then Helm’s deep happened. I remember when I hit the cap, just 3 days after it’s release and soon I was in my first BB. I didnt like it, not even a little. after just 2 weeks I just stopped playing altogether. I simply lost the energy and drive to log on. There was just nothing worth doing it. Everything was a faceroll, people soloing 6mans like nothing, some even managed to solo isengard, some wings of it atleast.
    I just recently came back to the game and while I cant say that I’m impressed with the state of the game, it’s an improvement. At least the new management at Turbine is listening to the players to a certain extent and they gave us some new instances instead of the dreaded BB’s. And even a new pvp map that has been asked for for years now. The quests in gondor are in general a lot better than those in rohan, the text and the ideas behind the quests the 5 times better than that generic shit in rohan.
    I very much liked the quest line about the 5 rivers and sisters of gondor.
    Regarding my champion:
    It’s a faceroll, with full golden essence armour and good jewellery you can only die if you stay afk in the middle of the orc camp in osgiliath.
    overall opinion on U16:
    While I can’t say that I’m impressed, I consider it a step in the right direction. They made a really good decision with the instance cluster. Now all we need is a proper raid and good and balanced rewards.
    But untill that happens I’ll remain sceptical.

    sorry for the long post, just felt that I had to write this. For all the grammar mistakes I apologise, english is not my native language.

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