LOTRO Players News Episode 79: Flippy

17 comments

1. 

   Kaleigh Starshine / January 5, 2015

   A great but short show, everyone 🙂

   I wanted to try to clarify the intent of my article about wishes for this year, because I think some are focusing on smaller things within it rather than the larger purpose behind it.

   I think most everyone would agree that, more than any other time, the time of Helm’s Deep and the year that followed led to players being seen less as individuals over being classified into groups (Soloer, Raider, Apologist, Vocal Minority and so on). The purpose of the first topic, Reconciliation, was expressing my wish that we return to seeing everyone as individuals, worthy of being valued and appreciated within the community.

   That’s it 🙂

   As I always do when I discuss controversial topics, I tend to go to an extreme to support my opinions with foundation and the reason behind them, rather than just saying ‘this is stupid’ 🙂 Unfortunately, that makes things a bit longer to read (Sorry, Brax!)

   A quick search of the articles and comments here found I have used the word ‘Overlords’ many, many times before, including in my Legendary Article guide which was overwhelmingly positive. I am not sure why some are getting hung up on that now.

   The second part of the article, Re-evaluation, was to express my wish that Turbine takes another look at its system for evaluating what their players want. Again, this can be seen as somewhat controversial, so I backed up my opinion with discussion over the reputation item issue currently.

   To track whether players are earning more Turbine Points than what Turbine wishes to allow seems to me a much simpler task than determining, with any accuracy, what each of its players desires for content based on the nuance of their in-game activities. The fact that some people have ‘earned’ upwards of 80,000 Turbine Points doing this, for years, without getting Turbine’s attention, is an example for me of just how difficult it is to measure these things, period. Given some of the ‘evidences’ of the game’s decline this past year, I am suggesting that, perhaps, another look at things is warranted.

   That’s it 🙂

   A happy new year to all! 🙂

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     Kaleigh Starshine / January 5, 2015

     That is ‘Legendary Item article’, of course 🙂

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       Kaleigh Starshine / January 6, 2015

       Thank you, Brax 🙂 As we have discussed before, we do not always agree on things, but I think we know each other and our writing well enough to know that we both always endeavor to be a positive influence on the community. What you wrote recently about community and why being a part of it is important to you only deepens that for me. 🙂

       The reason why I supported my argument as I did is because I was trying to evoke a real change and not simply voice a platitude, empty words that would be forgotten soon after they were written. It was important for me to frame the issue, and to give evidence of its existence, in order to show why it was of enough importance to act upon.

       It is very much the same reason why students in Traffic School are shown pictures of horrendous car accidents. It is not to give the students a negative impression of driving, but to impress upon them how important,/i> it is that they take care while they are driving, and to take care while we speak of other players and our community, in this case.

       There is a difference between speaking about negative things and ‘speaking negatively’ or ‘being negative’. Some will always react negatively to discussion of controversial or negative topics, no matter what is said, and I knew that was a risk But I felt there was a need to show, clearly, the root cause of the issue, that it still persists, and why it is so important that we all work toward ending it.

       That may be the underlying difference in our opinions. From what you have said, you believe I am bringing up old issues. From my experiences in game (most everyday), and from browsing the forums (at least a little, most everyday), I was addressing what, in my opinion, is a persistent and continuing issue.

       Also, I have to *respectfully* disagree with your opinion about the ‘re-hashing and griping’. Rereading the comments, the most I see is someone stating their opinion that it was a mistake for Turbine to have abandoned traditional group content. Whether it is true or not that was a mistake, and I doubt anyone on this earth knows that definitively, I do not think we should be discouraging individuals expressing opinions, if it is done in an acceptable way.

       If, as Frelorn has hinted at, there is good news for those that have been hoping for traditional group content in the upcoming Producer’s letter, it would be, without question, solely due to Turbine listening to such opinions. Virtually no one is running traditional content now, with how incentivized Epic Battles have become. It has gone from an everyday activity for me, to something I have not done in months.

       Thank you again, Brax 🙂

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     Braxwolf / January 5, 2015

     Mine wasn’t meant as a criticism of the length/style of the post as much as a matter of personal preference and my ability to sit in front of a screen for any length of time without being called away for “daddy” or “hubby” duties.

     I think the call for a return to “powered by our fans” is more than reasonable, but I do think that some of your supporting text hurts your cause if that cause is to reconcile and move forward. As you can see, some have once again started to re-hash (and dare I say gripe about) the HD/no raids period and gravitate towards focusing on the events surrounding that supporting text while missing the overall point of the article, which is that we need to move beyond that point and forward to (hopefully) better things.

     I like the optimism you display towards the end of the post. I hope the overlords can do something to make you happy in the year to come 🙂 That said, I do think we all (myself included) need to be very careful not to assume that what we want is the same as what other players want.

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       Kaleigh Starshine / January 6, 2015

       *sighs* My comment went into the wrong spot, and I cannot move it. Look up! 🙂

2. 

   Branhild / January 5, 2015

   Great show! I say Pineleaf gets a pass this week due to LPA. He did finish up the Giant and got punted off Orthanc.
   Thank you

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3. 

   Tirian / January 6, 2015

   Its pretty depressing that you all come up with exactly the things I’d expect you to say – Cithryth talking about cosmetics (cosmetics being an interesting, but hardly central, in terms of new content), Draculetta complaining about Big Battles (hasn’t your vendetta been going on long enough? Sure, big battles initially were awful, but have you actually tried grouping with your kinnies attempting to achieve platinum in the 6 man Pelargir run?), Ethelros moaning about LIs (they aren’t that great, and I’d love to see an efficient and effective revamp, but scrapping the system entirely is rather ludicrous, considering its importance in terms of balance, both in PvE and PvP) and Pineleaf preaching about skirmishes (a dull system which lacks the dynamics of a decent raid, or of the Pelargir BB). (Oh, and Lilikate, as always, highlighting the music system – I’m pretty sure that they already reverted the system due to the criticisms of the playerbase?)

   While I had a bit more hope when you began to discuss the possibilities for Minas Tirith, the fact that Pineleaf continued to argue that skirmishes were likely, or even possible, to be our method of interaction with the battle, suggests that he’s never bothered to read the stuff coming from Turbine, which has been consistently saying that Minas Tirith will be a series of BBs. I may wish that it would be a classic raid, and Pineleaf and Draculetta may wish that it was a series of skirmishes, but that isn’t going to happen.

   I guess I’m just mainly disappointed that when presented with the question of what your wishes for the year were, you fell back on your old prejudices, rather than exploring the possibilities that the information we currently have from Turbine suggests may happen. Andang (and to a lesser extent, Braxwolf) did discuss some of this information (related to PvMP and a possible instance cluster), and highlighted the importance of keeping the story at the centre of our LOTRO experience, but I feel that this was overshadowed by the ‘shattered hopes’ of Ethelros – many of us have been disappointed by this game in the past, but refusing to put forward your hopes for the coming year because you fear disappointment doesn’t seem an appropriate reaction. This discussion could have covered the new regions that we are going to be entering, the way that the story will evolve, and a realistic look at the snippets of information that Turbine have given us, but unfortunately it didn’t evolve that far.

   While my priorities are obviously different to many of yours, its disappointing to see that some of your prejudices get in the way of well informed observations which used to be present in this podcast.

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     Ethelros / January 6, 2015

     *Note that what I say here does not at all represent the views of my fellow cohosts.

     Addressing your point on us ‘beating old drums’, I think calling it a prejudice is using the wrong word. Prejudice suggests we do not actually understand the systems we claim to hate. I can assure you I am VERY well acquainted with the LI system, and it is that understanding that feeds my dislike for it. It’s a pox on this game, quite frankly, and brings more aggravation than enjoyment, in my opinion.

     You do have a point however, that simply falling back on old hatreds when asked to talk about hopes and dreams for the future is not a good thing. And for me at least the reason is clear.

     I am *tired*. So very, very tired of this game and this company. I can’t even muster the energy to get upset when Turbine does something stupid, or be happy when they do something good. Outside of Adventures I haven’t logged into LOTRO on my own volition for many months, while newer, shinier games are easily capturing my attention. Apathy is more dangerous for a game than negativity they say, and for me that certainly seems to be the case.

     This is something I’ve been sensing for several months now. This is, however, the first time it has been suggested that it has started to affect my performance on the podcast. I cannot ignore this fact, and so will have to take some form of action.

     While I may disagree with various parts of your post, it has made it abundantly clear that some self-evaluation is in order with regards to my place on this podcast. After all, if the person speaking doesn’t care about what they are saying, why would anyone else care about what they have to say?

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       Tirian / January 6, 2015

       This is a very careful and considered reply to my comment, and I thank you for that.

       You’re right in suggesting that prejudice is the wrong word – rather its an opinion which you have decided upon and it would be difficult to shift it in a different direction. The most clear example amongst the LP News team is Draculetta’s feelings towards Big Battles. I understand your frustrations towards Legendary Items, but I do not think removing the system entirely would be a solution to the problem.

       I’m sorry to hear that you no longer find enjoyment in the game – my feelings towards the game also become lukewarm at times. although the story and the landscape (in addition to my wonderful kin) always drag me back. However, I understand that Turbine have not been at their best for a while, and there are many occasions when I feel the same exasperation that you do – although, perhaps because there are members of my kin who see things from a more negative perspective, I continue to hope for better things as a way of enthusing them.

       In the past, I’ve found you, Ethelros, to be the presenter on this podcast that I’ve agreed with the most (and your measured approach has been an excellent foil for Pineleaf’s, and to a lesser extent, Andang’s relentless positivity) – whether this is a false interpretation or not, you seemed to be the one who had the greatest experience of instances and raiding, and a well developed knowledge of your chosen classes, and I have appreciated these things. I hope that the game, and the community, manages to re-enthuse you in the near future. Though, as you acknowledge, if that is not the case, then I think you may struggle to truly connect with developments in the game.

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       Ethelros / January 6, 2015

       I do appreciate the criticism, truly. To be frank our opinions on the podcast tend to go largely unchallenged(except by each other of course, and a few dedicated listeners like Kaleigh Starshine and yourself), which may be part of the issue you describe.

       On the topic of LIs, I do (grudgingly) concede that simply ripping out the LI system is not good for the game as a whole. That said I do fervently believe that what there currently is, is not very good. Were it possible I would like a complete rebuild of the system from scratch, but given Turbines current issues and the pushback of the LI update(which now may or may not be coming), I am despairing of the whole subject.

       The landscape and story of LOTRO has always been why I played the game, and why I always came back after breaks. I actually enjoyed Update 15’s content, but after trying out GW2 and being able to experience a game fresh and ignorant again, looking at LOTRO and knowing how everything works(and doesn’t work) perhaps distanced me even further from the game. The fact that we still know little about what Turbine has planned for this year doesn’t help with the lack of excitement.

       Again, I appreciate the response. This has been a decent ‘wakeup call’ for me, alerting me to my own rut, and I will thusly try to avoid being as single-minded as I have been. Hopefully with the coming Producer’s Letter my love for the game will spark again.

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       Kaleigh Starshine / January 6, 2015

       I hope it will, Ethelros 🙂

       Though we are as far apart as can be on the LI issue :), I agree with Tirian in that you have deep insight into the game and also have a rather unique ability to make keen observations regarding it, ones that I would never have considered.

       This has been a bumpy patch for many. I hope this new year will lead us all toward rediscovering the wonder and magic in Lotro that keeps us all here.

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     braxwolf / January 6, 2015

     I think this is a fair criticism.

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     Draculetta / January 6, 2015

     My comments were “Pie In The Sky” that was not a this is what is going to happen thing. this is if we could have 1 thing that is what it would be.. I’m sorry that I dislike EPIC BATTLES.

     Yes I’ve done the 6 man.. Nope, still don’t like it.. I can “Stand” to run that it, if I’m playing with friends and they want to do an EPIC, I’d pick that one.. but if I had my choice I choose not do them..

     Yes, I know that Minas is going to be an EPIC battle. We have the system, they are going to use it. Does it make sense for it to be an EPIC. yes.. will I like it? No probably not.

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4. 

   Barnabras / January 6, 2015

   My Lotro dream for 2015 is a server merger. Right now we have too much toast and not enough butter. We need the proper size toast! Without a doubt the population of Lotro is not as high as it was in 2010. This is totally understandable, most people will only play a game for so long before they want to move onto something else. My primary server (Riddermark) is becoming a ghost town. Not much going on, not many people grouping. When you are in game you feel it, and I think more people end up leaving because of it. “If no one else is here why am I?” Because it is a MMO and a social game, if that element is eliminated, you lose allot. I do understand that some people only solo and to them the server population means nothing. But I believe that most people, that are still playing, enjoy grouping and the social aspect of the game. I actually think droping a significant number of servers will help the game in the long run. You are more likely to continue playing a game when your internet friends are still playing. Maybe they could give out transfer tolkiens to the closing servers, 5 for vip, 3 for premium and 2 for F2P. This way if you really want all of your toons, Lotro could still generate some money.

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     braxwolf / January 6, 2015

     This is partially why I’d like to see free character transfers, The natural progression of people to populated servers would help determine which ones need to be shuttered, if any. Even better, they could implement mega-servers (if technically possible) to alleviate that lonely feeling. That way, could dodge the bad press/stigma that naturally follows server closures.

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       tsuhelm / January 7, 2015

       In 2015 I would like to see TURBINE try and address the slow drip drip of players away from LOTRO…and I think a little consolidation of servers would help greatly! And Brax that’s a great way of doing it 🙂

       But what about this…maybe TURBINE should try and increase the number of players of LOTRO in 2015 maybe try some advertising!

5. 

   flosiin / January 6, 2015

   2015 dreams: War Goats (Have the similar to Heavy war steed.)
   Racial trait for the other races to make drink or food.
   3 man instance of a Hobbit having bad dream of crazy creature trying to steal “The One Pie.”
   Lore master get a new pet- Battle squirrels.

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