Gothmog Vs Fingar

99 instances ago the Abyss of mordath was just an unnamed raid. Throne of the Dread terror  was the latest one in Middle-Earth that we could run. Yet 99 instances took a bit longer then expected and we’re on the verge of the followup raid. And instead of two articles that go in-depth on each one we’ll dive a bit deeper into what makes a good raid. A case of good evil cop vs bad evil cop. Or in this case Gothmog vs Fingar.

What makes a raid different from a 3 or 6 man instance?

Size, complexity and depth are the biggest differences. It takes a lot of manpower from the player and the developer to finish a raid. As such raids are usually saved for the biggest story bosses, the end of an expansions lifetime and requires the hardest and most difficult to execute tactics and gear.

Instead of a menacing tree in garth agarwen that only allows single target dps you get to fight a world-ending balrog that takes about 20-30 minutes when it first came out. Instead of a spider thats just living its live in the scuttle dells you’ll be chased by a fellbeast and nazgul on top of the enemies stronghold.

On top you don’t have to make the raid doable for every little 3-class combination, but can go delve into tactics that need 3 tanks or making little parties within an instance that need to manage themselves. Upping the damage to ridiculous levels that someone will need to combat by completely dedicating their gear to defense to stand a chance. This also give you the chance to reward people with the best rewards out there. Set bonuses, cosmetics sets special titles that people can wear with pride.

All in all, it gives you and the developers the chance and duty to go all out in everything the game has too offer.

Gothmog vs Fingar

Two raids you haven’t seen yet in the 99 instances are Throne of the dread terror and Abyss of mordath. Both were the pinnacle of their “expansions” and finished of the Gondor and Mordor expansion. Yet one still lives in peoples memories and one is almost universally hated and/or forgotten.  In this article i’ll compare both to see why Thrones is one of the best raids in lotro and Abyss might be one of the worst multi-boss raids. In no particular order here are the characteristics that make up a raid

Story (mode) and lead up

Myth, legend and quest lines make people excited for a raid. Loot, reward and tactics will only show itself once you’re done. The chance to fight Saruman or a balrog is something you only thought of while reading the books or watching the movies.

Throne has the story mode on it’s side. The final showdown of the battle of Pelenor fields speaks to your imagination. The entire battlefield and previous instances all lead up to the raid.  Abyss is the end of 1 of 3 story lines in Mordor. Cirith ungol, Seregrost and Barad dur and partly Durthang each future a stronghold that has a menacing boss larger then live. While Gothmogs appearance is a bit of a stretch, a bunch of dwarves finding a tied down dragon that holds a ring (not even sure what kind of ring it was) that drove them insane.

I’d have to give the points to Throne (and detract 1 for the epic book finish). Fingar would get a point if the story would be better placed and switched places with Seregrost as the last quest line at 115.

Environment

Landscape, views and overall sense of awe can make you forget your 10th wipe on a boss. The moment you found yourself before the last boss in the Rift was a moment of awe. The top of Orthanc or the deepening wall of Helms deep will show you the game wants you dead.

Abyss is within an underground cavern and Throne is on the battlefield of pelenor. Throne has a very clear layout and map. Where Abyss is a maze of bridges, caverns and dead ends. Normally it would be a clear winner for Throne, but by the raid time the splendor of Minas tirith was replaced with hatred for its crashes and lag. While Abyss still gives me a sense of adventure when you make your way down through all the thrash mobs.

Both don’t have the most memorable surroundings. But abyss gets a slightly less lower score then Throne.

Surrounding mechanics

While not part of the raid, the expansion they are part of aren’t trivial. Ranging from lootboxes, barter systems or gearing delays such as radiance or light all impact the enjoyment of the raid itself.

During Throne we’ve gotten Imbuement, Gift of the valar, unique class items and good set bonuses. Abyss got deeper on Ashes of gorgoroth and Light of erendil as a gear check. While both were both a throwback from the moria days as ways to ease RNG and prevent going into raid before you were ready. Both were largely overshadowed by lootboxes and balance issues within these.

Imbuement, specialty items and set bonuses were in both raids. Throne gets a head start with the better set bonuses. Specialty items such as the class items speak a lot more to a player then a number upgrade on the legendary item relic.

Overtime the Valar upgrade, RNG barter system and lootboxes have all gotten a makeover and seem to fit better within the game, The requirement of light of erendil for abyss constricts nearly all but the most dedicated player to redo the Abyss.

Again, Throne gets slightly ahead but both arent the best. With abyss clearly losing grounds to every raid by not being able to do it at the moment.

Thrash mobs

Oh boy does this make Throne look like a choir boy. The only bad thing i could think of would be that it doesn’t have any mobs before the bosses that teach you the mechanics of the boss. Neither does Abyss, but where as throne hardly has any mobs that arn’t bosses. Abyss has just a few more. The only redeeming factors for them is that each pull is clearly defined and slowly builds up to a grand melee before each boss.

When players take a burglar that has extra stealth bonuses sneak past half the instance while 11 players wait for 15 minutes to just not have to sit through an evening of repetition and no loot. Creative use of raid locks that border on exploiting being widely accepted and ask for as a default is a huge F for a raid. Without this tactic the raid wouldn’t even be run at all.

A B+ for Throne, and an E or F+ for Abyss.

Bosses and raidflow

6 vs 3 might sound as an easy choice, but as you might have read in the Rift numbers isn’t everything. A unique feel, different mechanics and a right difficulty can make up for numbers.

Rakothas, Mumaks, Twinblades, Corruption guy, fountain Twins and Gothmog face of vs Twins, beorning guy and Fingar. The difficulty of the throne bosses is the main flaw of the raid. Once you get past boss 2 it’s a clear road to Gothmog. Where as once you make it past the thrash mobs abyss has just three bosses that each are clearly different and none are filler such as boss 3 in Throne.

Boss 1 in the Abyss is a near perfect raid boss in each of its difficulty. Boss 2 and 3 lose a lot of points in their mechanics and class viability, but on itself they are pretty decent. Nothing special or can top Mumaks or Gothmog, but not dragged down by filler bosses or raidflow.

Mechanics

Each boss in Throne until the final boss has a focus mechanic. Rakothas is a dps race, corruption guy is all about their removal and the crawler twins is all about placement and control. Mumaks are an above par complex fight that rivals final raid bosses. Each on their own might lacks a bit of depth, but challenges are even a challenge on higher levels.

As i said boss 1 in the abyss is nearly perfect combination of movement, minibosses, Twins damage control for each class in the raid. Boss 2 is all about abusing a Beornings %tual healing skills or just skip the challenge. Fingar is most dreary, boring raid final raid boss within lotro. The only difficulty comes from your tanks staying awake. Or the adds that arnt under control. Actively avoiding getting T2 or gearing your beorning to not get an invite.

Abyss really loses out while throne has a few gems of raid bosses. Gothmog is a class of its own and could be a mini raid on itself. And the moment you cleared the mumaks is an accomplishment on 105.

Class viability

While mostly a reflection of the state of the game a raid can favour a certain traitline of class soley by itself. Redline captains at Rakothas, corruption removal from guards and champs, warden tanks on mumaks or aoe heals from beornings are all viable at specific bosses. A loremaster with maximum finesse, a burglar to skip mobs or just any class that offers raw power in healing or dps. Abyss has a very strict class setup that requires people to relog just for 1 part or boss.

A few retractions for abyss clearly.

Loot and rewards

While it might not be fair to discount the abyss as just more of the same as the mordor landscape loot. The ash-barter system made it feel a lot like it. Most of the drops had the same issue as the scaling instances, in it that it always felt like a randomized reward instead of a drop chance.  Getting an item drop felt like saving a big chunk of ash instead of an exciting reward.

Throne was divided into boss 1 to 3 and above. And tier 1 and 2.  Each boss would drop a specific barter item and ithilien coins that you could in turn turn into your desired version of an item. The higher the difficulty of the tier or boss the more desired the item normally is.

Each of the gear systems has their merit. Abyss has the ease of availability and choice, while throne had it sense of pride and exclusivity. The setbonusses of throne are still in use by some classes while abyss gear is mostly neglected.

Where there is a clear winner is in post level cap runs. Throne has pets, housing items and legendary weapon loot. Throne has been run far past it haydays. Part of it because people seem to enjoy it, but the ithilien coins that are the sole repeatable source of Imbuement scrolls has kept it alive for a long while. Having a worthwhile currency for end-game characters keeps it upright that the Erebor raids havn’t done.

Challenge

Throne is raid killer while abyss is a kin killer. While throne had its epoch during the mumakills and plenty of (pug) raid group never made it past these beasts. The abyss pure amount of thrash mobs before any worthwhile loot made many raiders give up on their current kin and look for greener pastures. That last group of dwarves before boss 1 was arguably harder then the entire raid.

The issues abyss had in classes, loot and the T2 deed that would mean you could get your rewards outside of the raid meant it was hard to keep a group going. Failing to get the last flag or boss 1 lock meant it would be hard to get a raid group going for the entire week.

All in all the challenge in both could be seen as about equal, but it was a lot harder to have fun in it and a bigger chance for a complete failure in abyss. Following the raid progression threat was a lot more exciting.

Replayability

Winner by default due to a no-show. Nearly everything in the abyss speaks against itself. Each of the aspect spoken above lacks anything that sparks my interest if someone asks if someone want to an abyss run. I’d even admit i’d actively avoided the abyss while it was at level cap. Perhaps even more so now. Perhaps in a few years we’re going to do a lost lore pages run when the Light of erendil gets removed. But i’d wager there wont be a 115 cap group anytime soon looking to relive this raid.

PS: Fingar as a guard is the most tedious fight there might have ever been. I’d rather spar a training dummy in the ettenmoors. Atleast i can stand still while looking good.

Throne gets most of its replayabilty from the relevant barters, cosmetic, a few remarkable boss encounters that marked a nostalgia and difficult obstacle at the time. While the latest revamp has made it a bit too difficult for a casual run with just a small group. You;d often find a group going at most reset and weekends.

Overall scores

If you made it this far, played the raids yourself or skipped right to this part. Throne is the clear good evil cop. It might get written down in the books as the top 3 best multi-boss raids. Wile the abyss is down in the bottom 2. Depending on how you rank some parts it exchanges blows with DN or the erebor cluster for the bottom of the ladder.