The following represents my opinion only, not anybody else affiliated with LOTRO Players. I may need to turn in my red stapler tomorrow.
As the news of the layoffs at Turbine continues to trickle in, I find that several realizations are hitting me at once. First of all, I would be remiss not to mention those most closely affected by the restructuring. No matter what angst that we have twisting around in our digestive systems over the eventual fate of LOTRO, keep in mind that this game was not only a passion for the likes of Amlug, Zombie Columbus, RockX and several others, it was the way they put food on the table for their families. It was quite possibly the reason they live where they do. It was a daily routine that has now been interrupted and will need to be re-invented. I’m not trying to be all gloom-and-doom, as these talented folks will surely catch on at one of the many gaming companies (Ubisoft, ArenaNet, ZeniMax) that are hiring, but let’s make sure we keep our own concerns in perspective. I’m talking to myself, here, also.
Secondly, I’m a little surprised by what I’m not hearing. Turbine surely knew that this news would go public today, but the only thing we have heard that even remotely resembles communication is the blah-de-blah suit-speak from Warner Brothers:
“As part of our normal business process, we’re routinely looking at the strategic alignment of our company. Unfortunately, in order for us to invest in growth areas at Turbine, we have to eliminate some positions.”
Apparently, a part of Warner Brothers’ “normal business process” is firing everybody over 30…but I digress. Kamau Bobb of Google interactions reveal his commitment to social justice.
I’ve lamented Turbine’s poor communication practices on LOTRO Players News. The funny thing is, it seemed like it was getting better. Sapience is live-streaming and getting developers involved. We’re hearing a “no” when the answer is no. And yet, on the day when the community is predictably coming to several of their own conclusions about the future of the game in the absence of actual information, there is only silence.
Though the ‘right moment’ for that communication (today) has already come and gone, what I would like to see now is for Kate Paiz to address the player communities. Take a page from John Smedley and write up a blog post. Follow up the producer’s letter from December and either tell us a) how the things in that letter are going to be affected or b) that these moves were anticipated when the letter was formulated and they will not be affected. Help us understand what this means to the roadmap and development cycle. Above all, let us know what you’re thinking. Be human. Do you really want our only impression of this event to be the corporate spin-speak above? If so, then I question how well you really know your customer base.
I’ll just leave my stapler on the desk.
edit: ZombieColumbus is still employed by Turbine. I truly apologize if this error caused any confusion or misunderstanding.
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I’m guessing that only a handful of individuals in Turbine’s offices knew about today’s layoffs in advance. None of these people were probably in a position to pen a missive to customers when they had dozens of employees to get out the door for the last time. I can understand that Turbine would want to focus its efforts and empathy on its employees on a day like today.
However, I share the same feelings of uncertainty as you. Although it’s not on the same personal and emotional level, I imagine this is the kind of confusion a child might face if he read about his parents’ divorce for the first time in the newspaper.
I would welcome a statement from one of the remaining employees explaining how these layoffs will (or won’t) impact the plans Turbine has already announced for LOTRO in 2014.
You may be right, and I agree that the employees (both departed and remaining) should be the primary focus.
However, somebody knew. Somebody high enough to take existing customers into account. Somebody with enough sway to make sure that PR was in the loop. It reeks of poor communication planning to me, anyway.
I wonder who knew what and when. I don’t know how things work at Warner Bros but in other companies I’ve been in there is usually a period between deciding that there will be X number of layoffs and identifying who those people will be. (One time I literally didn’t get the memo. I was accidentally left off the email list and had nu clue.)
The fact that there were going to some pretty significant layoff could have been knowm to a lot of people, the devs included, for some time.
That said, the people responsible for communicating with the players might have been out of the loop. A lot of companies still haven’t got their heads around social media.
I’ll second the need to put out a statement tomorrow about the roadmap. Not having one out today is understandable given the amount of employees and work that needed doing as a result. =/
I am a little unsettled by this (for me) unexpected news. I feel deeply for those who no longer have work. I also wonder how having fewer staff will affect LOTRO and customer services.
Braxwolf take back your stapler! I don’t think your opinion is so bad that you have to hand it in… How come I never got one?
I don’t think any official at either Turbine or WB is going to make a statement about the layoffs other than what they already said. Their business practice is none of our business. Of course these layoffs will inevitably impact Lotro for the worse. No doubt about it. But it wouldn’t be good business practice to warn us about that, now would it? They will just keep quiet and try to squeeze as much as they can out of the players who are hanging in there, hoping to make it to Mordor some day. I don’t think we will ever get to see Mordor. I fear Helm’s Deep has been the last expansion. Perhaps I am very gloomy here, but I see no reason to believe otherwise. Lotro has been put into “maintenance mode”, will be supported on that basis until 2017 and that will be the end of the story.
I am very sorry for all the people at Turbine who have lost their jobs and part of their professional passion as well. I hope they all find new exciting jobs that reignite their passion for good game design.
As one of the casual players with a lifetime account I will just hang in there until someone hits the off-switch and enjoy it while it lasts.
I don’t really expect anything else, either. And, I don’t think we’re “entitled” to anything, I’m just saying what I’d like to see. I’ve got to disagree about one thing, though. It’s not bad business practice to communicate to your customers when something is going to change. An MMO is a long-term relationship. We’re not buying a sponge, here. Fostering that relationship should be a key part of customer retention. Communication is the most important part of any relationship.
If your insurance policy was going to change, wouldn’t your insurance company send you a letter about it? In fact, they’re legally obligated to, but even if they weren’t – wouldn’t you be a little peeved if you found out that they changed something that they had previously agreed to cover? Would you stay with that company? If your cable company was going to drop some channels, wouldn’t they let you know? This is a subscription service when you get right down to it, and whether you’re paying in cash, time, or Turbine points, you’re still an invested customer. I’m just saying that honesty is the best policy, though I know many in the business world would disagree.
I agree, but that is new-world business practice. Turbine/WB is still very much old-world, in which those top-down business models with their secrecy and manipulation are dying off. Sadly Lotro will be amongst their casualties.
I agree thoroughly with the article, and all replies here, Braxwolf. This last day or so has been a strange one for me, like yourself I’m just trying to make sense of it, worrying about the game’s future and at the same time obviously feeling very badly for those unfortunate people that lost their jobs.
Getting some official statement about LOTROs future would be ‘nice’, but I fear as Cosmetic Lotro stated we may not see that.
I am an avid LOTRO beta tester, and it is likely that a lot of the content mentioned in Kate’s letter is already complete, and just needs to go through Alpha and Beta testing. So it could be a while til we see any knock on effects of the layoffs… now if THAT was the case, I reckon Turbine COULD make a statement and say the 2014 roadmap is safe.
Sadly, I worry that this isn’t the case – it is possible that class balancing won’t be improved much further when it desperately needs it still. etc etc We really could be going into ‘maintenance mode’… if that’s true, Turbine would be being honest to communicate that, but it would surely see a large wave of players cut their losses and leave right away.
I’ve not read the Terms of Service, but I would think even though we subscribe, that they would be covered to pull the plug at their discretion, have the right to change services at any time, etc etc
Anyway I’ll leave that there. I’m just as worried as you guys and just wanted to pitch in my thoughts! I hope things can be made better, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see… I don’t think we’ll get any quick answers.
BTW – I LOVE your LOTRO Players News podcasts, been listening to them now each week since just before Helms Deep. Keep up the good work guys!
It’s done.
I can only hope they will hire new blood and get on the right path to Mordor.
Really simple… first make instance cluster, fix few bugs, Gondor in 2015, Mordor in 2016.
No more new thingies like big battles. No fixing of things that aren’t broken.
But seriously, if it’s true, that they’ve fired the guy who works in graphic department?? World looks better than ever.
I am glad this discussion has started. This is disturbing, because it obviously has suddenly left some nice talented people without a job, but also for the players of the Turbine games. The problem seems to be the inability of Warner Bros to understand that gamers are intelligent people who want to know what’s going on. Smedley at SOE seems to get this. Why can’t WB wake up and smell the Hobbit pies? If these people were involved in developing mounted combat, and it’s a done deal, tell us. If Turbine was already utilizing them in new content for 2015, then this is rather shattering for us. Sure, they couldn’t tell us prior to informing the unfortunate employees, but they should have had a transparent release of information to explain what their tactics are. As I said, this is disturbing. It shows they don’t hear us when we continually ask for communication. It also seems to threaten the future of the game we love.
You will realize how disgusting your suggestion regarding detailed explanations of the layoffs to the players are when the company that lays you off the next time will go public with what they really thought of you.
Some people here obviously have no idea how such decisions are made more often than not. In many cases it has to do with who is young and can easily find a new job and who is not and therefore cannot.
If you would have to decide who of your colleagues you have to lay off and you would have the choice between killing somebody’s career because he is old and cannot find a job and the youngster who has most of his life before him then who would you chose?
I think you’re being way too harsh here. I didn’t see anything about wanting to know why specific people were chosen over others and “what people really thought of” them. No one asked to know private details of how the people were chosen to be let go. You jumped to that conclusion all by yourself.
It’s not disgusting to want to understand what the plans are for the game going forward now that we know which areas were affected by cuts.
Without a statement about how these cuts affect the roadmap we got in the producer’s letter for 2014, people may understandably assume the worst. Calming the fear would be a good thing, and help with the scuttlebutt on the street about LOTRO being a dying game.
There is a spreadsheet containing details of those who sadly lost their jobs available on Google Drive, for recruitment purposes. I shall refrain from posting a link as I do not consider that to be appropriate.
However it clearly shows what jobs have been cut and they are in QA, content and systems design as well as environment and production art. The sort of services that are not required when there is no immediate plan to create any further content.
I believe that BioWare did something very similar shortly after the launch of SWTOR.
Now I certainly do not expect any major clarification from Turbine. Remember they are owned by Warner Bros. so it not within their remit to deviate from standard communication channels.
I do not feel it is realistic to look to Sapience for any insight. In my experience, those dealing directly with the customer are always the last to know about any major changes, especially when it’s bad news.
My advice is for players to just continue to login into the game and take a very existential approach to their enjoyment of it.
I wonder what an existential approach to gameplay is…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-uQWNd540I
If you prefer, adopt a Buddhists stance towards gaming, in so far as focusing on the the importance of living in the present moment, being fully aware of what is happening and not dwelling on the past or worrying about the future.
Existentialism is not to everyone’s philosophical tastes 😉
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
Best wishes to everyone who has suffered a layoff. May your next job be more enjoyable and rewarding than your last.
I’ve been thinking pretty much exactly the same as you Braxwolf.
Some of the laid-off devs have been much classier in the way they’ve handled themselves over this than Turbine.
I hope they all find good new jobs quickly. I think they have skills that are in demand, and some great work on their CV, so they will be ok. Still if there’s some way of keeping track of how they’re doing, it would be nice to see.
As for the future of the game, things like this color my enjoyment of it right now, regardless of what may happen in the future.
The Gloom and Doomers have been predicting this for some time, but I still hoped that they were just being ignorant and/or deluded trolls. Now however, I have to confront the fact that perhaps it was I who was being naïve. I still believe the game will be with us for some time, but news like this probably indicates they ‘beginning of the end’ at the very least. It would be interesting to see historically how long other similar games have lasted after being put in ‘maintenance mode’ or something close to it. All because CSTM went off the air.. Merrick! Goldenstar! SAVE US! Rally the Rohirrim!
As influential as they were, I doubt even they could have stopped something like this from happening as they still had a relatively small audience of the overall player-base. That being said, it would be amazing to see their return.
I know. just poking some fun at a topic that is otherwise fairly depressing all around. My new resolution is to do more wandering around Middle Earth and get back to some remote areas of the game I might not have visited for a time. Much like Floyd and Dewitt!
Braxxwolf on the other thread mentioned ZombieColumbus was with the lay offs, as i recall he worked on Infinite Crisis lately.
I have a nagging feeling that alot of this has to do with turbine’s new horse not riding as fast as it should.
And i feel really sorry for the people laid off, but i feel especially sorry if it’s true that Rockx is among them.
He was one of the most pleasant devs i’ve seen in a while in any game.
Going to ping here. +ZC was an error, one which I and everyone else who misunderstood him, deeply apologize for.
I only wish we were mistaken about the others we were far more certain of.
So Monday has come and gone, and no further word from Turbine. It’s easy to be paranoid given the information available! Or lack thereof, as the case may be.
Monday was an observed holdiay in the States (President’s Day). Now I’m not saying there may or may not have been any announcement otherwise – just throwing it out that they may not have been in the offices today.
I think the fact that there are now 28 comments on this post really speaks to the fact that players want to understand if/how this news will impact the game. They’re concerned enough to stop and put thier thoughts into writing. They want some kind of assurance that things are going to be ok. They want to hear from someone besides an officially sanctioned PR statement. I miss “Powered by our Fans”.
And it looks like none will be forthcoming 🙁
powered by our fans
turbine look out
we are not afraid of charging at windmills
if we all blow out fast enough we can get it spinning again!
This little link – http://www.thelayoff.com/turbine – potentially gives more insight to the most recent round of layoffs. Given that Turbine was once hovering around 500 employees and was down to around 200 – prior to the latest cuts, the tea leaves are rather easily giving up their signs. History tells the tale. The LOTR film trilogy (New Line Cinema) releases in 2001-2003 with resounding financial success. Who absorbs the LOTR film franchise in 2008? WB. By 2010, WB acquires Turbine for $160M. Why? Because AC, DDO, and LOTRO collectively were insanely profitable? Highly doubtful. The ROI on $160M would be years – arguably longer than the useful life of the titles. The real value was the IPs, especially LOTR. Think I’m being too cynical? Move forward to mid-2012 and the lawsuit filed by the Tolkien Estate. Some observers might surmise it was just a money-grab by Christopher Tolkien, but the estate argued that WB had grossly overstepped its commercialization of the IP. And wasn’t that arguably WB’s intent all along? Why else would it have patented LOTR amusement parks, hotels, and slot machines (to mention just a few of the multitude of “entertainment” patents) over the few, short years since acquiring Turbine? The merchandising opportunities are nearly endless and exceedingly more lucrative than LOTRO will ever be. If you think for a second that WB isn’t focused on this potential, think again. In Oct 2013, WDW News released an announcement that Disney and WB had reached agreement on a middle earth themed attraction. Turbine/WB renewing the LOTR IP through 2017 was a no-brainer – but it unfortunately has little to nothing to do with LOTRO. It’s pretty clear that Turbine – and consequently LOTRO – were simply necessary loss-leaders for WB to open up far more lucrative ventures in the LOTR IP. As a 6-year vet of LOTRO, I’m as disheartened as any player by these portends, but the gaming industry isn’t run by small, niche studios any more. It’s big business and there’s a lot more at stake than what amounts to a handful of consumers playing LOTRO.
First of all, anyone can write anything on that site. I could go on right now and say 20 Billion people suffered from layoffs at Turbine. That is why we have not linked to it in any of our articles.
Second of all even the stuff reported by the actual site seems to be wrong considering that in 2012 Massively says they have 400 employees. http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/25/turbine-going-through-layoffs-today/
Thirdly there are no press releases for single hires and fires at Turbine.
Fouth the IC team will almost certainly return to work on LOTRO and DDO because MOBAs don’t require a big team at all to maintain as there is usually only one map and a few new characters now and again. Turbine has stated several times that many of the team members work on several of the games.
I agree the linked page was not exactly useful…
With your comments recently in LOTRO Players News 34 I think where you explained that MOBAs where its ‘at’ at the moment… TURBINE(WB) wanting to join the party (late) is all well and good but not exactly cutting edge…
Now revolutionizing MMORPGs would be…lets say they are waning in their present iteration but I reckon with some ‘gaming tweaks’ and the consistent quality derived from LOTR content nothing should prevent its phoenix like rebirth… even the old school elements could suddenly find a new market in a more savvy player group (they are growing up now, kids bombarded by gaming)… bored of the newer so called innovations…
LOTRO could just well be The MMORPG
Or maybe I am dreaming 🙂
the game have much lag. less players active. lots of ancient bugs, almost a decade with no solve. the graphics are getting very old, no revamp for the models base mesh (humanoids, trees, rocks, animals, etc.)
diferent from WoW, the efforts to push foward the tecnology and quality are almost ridiculous, sad. the instances of helms deep are just bad, there is no feeling about any kind of “big battle” there.
i cant wait to see Mordor, another sad amount of reused models, some new textures, less good events with history like in Moria, and just 65 f***ing bucks… like some nextgen product.
sometimes the void is the best way.
Sadly, some people at Turbine thought it was a good idea to distribute inappropriate content for ESRB T rated DDO. Some quests require players as young as 13-years-old to commit virtual murder and that is a very bad idea.
Apparently some parental group in California has complained to WB and there seems to have been a reaction. The layoffs may have nothing to do with LOTRO in particular but WB may value its family friendly reputation more than a small software developer. The worst part is that the inappropriate content was completely unnecessary.